Let's see if...

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Nick DeStefano
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Let's see if...

Post by Nick DeStefano »

...you Yanks know your own history:

Which Yankee regiment retained it's original pre-war designation...was a member of the original Iron Brigade...has the most monuments of any specific unit on the field at Gettysburg...and to this day (in one form or another) remains an active unit in the National Guard?

Come on, this one is easy...it's just for starters...

<salute>
Colonel Nick DeStefano
II "Wolf-Pack" Corps, AotM
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cruces
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Re: Let's see if...

Post by cruces »

Gasp-a stealth Rebel-Wait, it's Nick-I came here to post an article about the battle of Cornith and the very Confederate officer I am fighting in that game is here drinking my whiskey. Where is the Provost Guard???

He does take a handsome photo though

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Col. Elkin
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cruces
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Re: Let's see if...

Post by cruces »

It has been a lackluster search so far, but tomorrow is a new day. I don't think the Iron Brigade got out of way though

Col. Elkin
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nealcarney
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Re: Let's see if...

Post by nealcarney »

<Salute!>
To all:
The 84th Regiment Infantry "14th Brooklyn State Militia Infantry" (14th Regiment State Militia Infantry--"14th Brooklyn")--the "Red Legged Devils"
During the First Battle of Bull Run: referring to the regiment's colorful red trousers as the regiment repeatedly charged up Henry House Hill, Confederate General Thomas J. "Stonewall" Jackson yelled to his men, "Hold On Boys! Here come those red legged devils again!" - Tevis, C. V.; D. R. Marquis (1911). The History of the Fighting Fourteenth: Published in Commemoration of the Fiftieth Anniversary of the Muster of the Regiment Into the United States Service, May 23, 1861. New York, NY: Brooklyn Eagle Press.< http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/14th_Regim ... urteenth-1 >

However, my research has led me to believe that there is NO unit that fulfills ALL FOUR of Colonel Nick DeStefano provisions. I challenge the esteemed Colonel DeStefano to provide reasonable documentation supporting his claim. See below:

1--Member of the original Iron Brigade
(There were at least four (4) brigades during the Civil War that earned the sobriquet (for all you Generals, this means ‘nickname’) “The Iron Brigade”:
1st Brigade, 1st Division, I Corps-‘Iron Brigade of the East’;
4th Brigade, 1st Division, I Corps-‘Iron Brigade of the West’;
3rd Brigade, 1st Division, III Corps;
Reno’s Brigade (2nd), Coast Division (Burnside) which became IX Corps.
However, 1-1-I is generally credited with being the ‘original’ Iron Brigade, earning its name in March, 1862 (Clemens, Thomas G. “Will the Real Iron Brigade Please Stand Up!”) < http://www.members.tripod.com/~g_coward ... 082000.htm >
The regiments of this brigade:
22nd New York, formed June 6, 1861
24th New York, mustered July 2, 1861
30th New York, mustered June 1, 1861
2nd US Sharpshooters, raised Oct-Dec, 1861
14th Regiment (New York State Militia), constituted May 13, 1847

2--Retained it's original pre-war designation
“When the regiment reassembled at Arlington, word was received from Albany that the number of the regiment had been changed by the State authorities. Henceforth, the message stated, it would be known as the 84th New York Volunteers. Immediately there was a storm of protest from officers and men alike. An appeal was made to the federal government. Happily, General McDowell was soon thereafter able to say: "You were mustered by me into the service of the United States as part of the Militia of the State of New York known as the Fourteenth; you have been baptized by fire under that number as such you shall be recognized by the United States Government and by no other number." The regiment was also known as the "14th Brooklyn" or sometimes the "Brooklyn Chasseurs" -- History of the Fourteenth Brooklyn Regiment< http://fourteenthbrooklynsociety.blogsp ... iment.html >

3--(In one form or another) Remains an active unit in the National Guard
“The spirit of the14th Regiment New York State Militia and all its lineage organizations presently continues in the 14th Regiment, New York State Guard organization and the 187th Signal Battalion, New York Army National Guard.” -- A History of the 14th Regiment N.Y.S.M. Infantry < http://www.14thbrooklyn.org/page2.html >

Also: 14th INFANTRY REGIMENT: (187th FIELD ARTILLERY)
< http://dmna.state.ny.us/arng/l-and-h/187fa.html >

BUT!!
4--Most monuments of any specific unit on the field at Gettysburg
“The 1st and 2nd United States Sharpshooters have the most monuments on the
field, which are primarily company markers erected by the different states
where each company was raised. The 1st USSS has a total of eight company
markers and the 2nd USSS is represented by a total of six company markers.
Likewise, both regiments are represented by the monument to the US Regulars
(1910) located on Hancock Avenue. As for volunteer regiments, it is a tie
between the 95th New York Infantry and 27th Connecticut Infantry, both with
a total of five monuments and markers. Next in line are the 88th
Pennsylvania Infantry, 90th Pennsylvania Infantry, Cooper's Battery 'B',
1st Pennsylvania Light Artillery, the 7th West Virginia Infantry, and the
13th Vermont Infantry, with four monuments and position markers.
We hope this information will be of use.
John Heiser
Ranger/Historian
Gettysburg National Military Park
john_heiser@nps.gov
(717) 334-1124, extension 1231” email message (Oct. 21, 2010)

The 1st US Sharpshooters have 8 (+1) markers yet are not in any of the “Iron Brigades”.
The 2nd US Sharpshooters with 6 (+1) makers, while in the Iron Brigade of the East, are second in markers, had no prior existence (were organized between Oct & Dec, 1861) and were combined with the 1st US Sharpshooters on December 31, 1864 and the regiment was broken up on February 20, 1865 (all regiments receiving companies from the US Sharpshooters were mustered out or disbanded at the end of the war).
The 84th NY (14th Reg.SMI-Brooklyn) are no where on the list.

I, therefore, put forth the 84th NY (14th Reg. SMI-‘Brooklyn’) as that unit that best fulfills the challenge and ‘call’ Colonel DeStefano to refute me.
<Salute!>
Brig. Gen. Neal Carney
AotT/XVI/2/1
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Joe Meyer
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Re: Let's see if...

Post by Joe Meyer »

Neal, as always your research on this is complete and thorough. I, too, spent some time on this, but then I re-examined the wording of Nick's actual question and began wondering if Battery B, 4th U. S. qualified as a "regiment!"
General Jos. C. Meyer, ACWGC UA
Commander, Union Army of the Tennessee


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nealcarney
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Re: Let's see if...

Post by nealcarney »

Joe:
While it is true that Battery B, 4th US Light Artillery fulfills some of the requirements: i.e. it existed prior to the Civil War and was assigned to the Iron Brigade, it cannot be considered a regiment
(Each field artillery regiment consisted of twelve batteries, which normally operated as independent units. Although the Army was authorized by Congress in 1821 to equip and train one battery of each regiment of Artillery as a light (horse drawn) artillery battery, the Army had not seen fit to actually do so before 1838. Two batteries of each regiment, including Battery B and Battery G of the 4th, were designated as Light or Horse Artillery.) "Battery B, 4th U.S. Light Artillery: Unit History" http://www.batteryb.com/unit_history.html.
Further, while it existed post Civil-War, it was not as a National Guard unit but regular army as 1st Battalion, 6th Field Artillery (Centaurs) Division Artillery, 1st Infantry Division in its last reincarnation. "Battery B, 4th U.S. Light Artillery: Unit History" http://www.batteryb.com/unit_history.html.
As well, the 1st US Sharpshooters still are the unit with the most monuments and markers.

Although traitorous rebels are capable of underhanded and deceitful ruses de guerre (such as his attempt to confuse and obfuscate by using the unclear term "the original Iron Brigade"), I believe that an honorable officer of the Confederate Army such as Col. DeStefano would not debase and dishonor himself by a treacherous breach of faith such as outright lying by attempting to claim a Battery as a Regiment, Regular Army service as National Guard service, etc.

I stand by my proclamaion of The "Red Legged Devils" -- the 84th Regiment Infantry "14th Brooklyn State Militia Infantry" (14th Regiment State Militia Infantry--"14th Brooklyn") as that unit that best fulfills the requirements that Col. DeStefano set and repeat my challenge for him to prove otherwise.
Brig. Gen. Neal Carney
AotT/XVI/2/1
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