Removal of routed units from map

[Drex]

Is it permissible to remove routed units from the map?

[krmiller_usa]

From the ACWGC Rules

5.1.4 Withdrawal of all (or a substantial portion of) forces from the battlefield, unless specified in the scenario as a victory condition, will cost the withdrawing player a 2-step reduction in the level of victory. Removal from the map of individual units, routed behind enemy lines by the game engine, is allowed. (This rule is waived in the case of campaign scenarios.)

[nsimms]

The rule leaves a lot up to interpretation. I had to make decisions regarding it more than once while functioning as a Tournament Director. It is clear that someone is not allowed to march their entire army off the map in a standalone battle unless the scenario specifically allows it, but what is meant by the "(or a substantial portion of)" part? Does that mean that Sigel can depart the map at Wilson's Creek or can he not? Can one unit depart the map because it isn't a 'substantial portion?' What is a 'substantial portion' anyway - 25% of the forces involved, 10% maybe? As for removing units routed behind enemy lines, what if they routed a turn after those units had already been cut off from their own lines? What if a whole division had been cut off and half of them routed - can they be removed? It's easy with this rule for two opponents to not see eye to eye on what the rule says.

Another part of the club rules need to be quoted in coordination with this one:

5.2 Violations In the absence of prior agreement, should an officer believe his opponent has violated any of the sections of this code he should first address his concerns with his opponent.

5.2.1 If this fails to bring satisfaction, the offended officer should discreetly bring the apparent violation to the attention of his own AC (chain of command is to be bypassed in this instance), who will open negotiations with the AC of the offending officer.

Does anyone think that each of the ACs would reach the same conclusions in regards to some of the questions that can be generated from this rule?

[krmiller_usa]

Personally if an opponent removes routed units from the map I don't have a problem with it. In the miniature rules I play routed units continue to retreat until they rally or leave the field while in these games they sit in place after the initial rout unless the controlling player moves them. Once suffered a minor defeat in a BG Antietam game because my opponent removed a routed unit from the map that I might have been able to eliminate as it was isolated and routed but started his turn on the edge of the map. I didn't have a problem with his move and turned down his offer to record it as a draw if I wanted which is what it would have been had I meleed and killed the unit. He and I become good friends and played several times over the years.

On the other hand if an opponent were to remove unrouted units from the map to avoid a defeat in anything other than a campaign game I would probably be a little upset. Don't know that I would raise a fuss over it, more likely just write off the game and move on placing him on that short list of people I refuse to play. Having been here over ten years and played over 170 registered battles I can tell you it's a very short list.

[Drex]

Thank you Gentlemen. I believe Gen. Miller has brought the rule up that I was thinking of. There was one small cavalry unit with its commander routed behind enemy lines that continued off the map as a routed unit would keep on going as if there were no map edge anyway. This was not a campaign scenario but it was in a tournament game. Neither player has a problem with it but I wanted a clarification for my own knowledge.

[Joe Meyer]

Nice discussion! I'd like to flip things for a moment and ask about bringing reinforcements onto the field. In some situations you might have reason to believe that your opponent is sitting near your entry hex with sizeable forces, just far back enough to avoid the automatic routing convention, but near enough in strength to really cause some damage or even annihilation to your troops if you bring them on. In that situation is it legitimate to hold your troops off from arriving?

[Drex]

I've had opponents hold reinforcements off until they could see how the battle developed. This is used when entry hexes are random. They have them enter the hex but don't move them until an enemy force is positioned for an advantageous ambush.

[nsimms]

The rules/game engine do not require us to bring on reinforcements as soon as possible although it is a rare scenario that it isn't the wise thing to do. It is actually advantageous from time to time to withhold or delay reinforcements to either avoid their elimination or to time their arrival based upon where your opponent's flank/rear is located.