Question about Tactics

[David Martin]

Hi Gentlemen: {salute}

I have a question that has been bothering me and I would like your opinions.

Very simply: What is "Supporting Distance" for infantry?

I read books on battles or on the war and always run into the fact that so-and-so brigade was "supporting" whoever, or was "in supporting distance".

I have not come up with an acceptable estimate so far. Just what do you consider "supporting distance"?

Regards,

Col. Martin {salute}

[krmiller_usa]

Although I'm not sure what historical supporting distance was, I seem to recall reading accounts where the brigade reserve regiments were 100-200 yards behind the front line while the supporting lines for an attack were started anywhere from 300-1000 yards behind the first line. At Shiloh for example the rebel second line was 800 yards behind the first at the start of the advance.

As to the games, for the BG games it was recommended to keep 3 hexes between the front line and reserves. This allowed them to replace a front line unit without being affected by a front line unit routing after losing a melee and retreating.

In the HPS system units adjacent to a unit which routs must check morale so you would probably want to keep at least the 2 empty hexes between lines so the reserves don't get routed if the front line runs.

[David Martin]

Very helpful! Thank you Gen. Miller.

Col. Martin {salute}

[Joe Meyer]

General Miller is very accurate in his description of infantry supporting infantry and how the games allow that to be historically duplicated. Infantry also supported artillery by lying down behind the caisson line, anywhere from 50 to 100 yards, dependent upon terrain. In such a position they could provide immediate support to the battery, if the enemy advanced. The guns meanwhile were able to fire with an unobstructed field of fire. Such placement of the infantry could be debilitating to the infantry, if the battery they were supporting was the object of counter-battery fire. However, the battle accounts contain instances where the infantry found itself out in front of a battery and were subjected to dangerously close "friendly fire!" Both these forms of infantry support for the artillery is accounted for within the game rules which allow the placement of infantry and artillery within the same hex.

[David Martin]

Excellent Point General Meyer sir: {salute}

With the game engine, the only way to adequately support artillery would be to stack the infantry with the Arty units they are supporting; or to place them in front and on each side of the artillery assuming the artillery is on higher ground.

Posting infantry behind the artillery will result in lost artillery.

I am still having a little trouble with infantry supporting distance in a battle like Murfreesboro or Chickamauga. I don't want the supporting units to rout, yet the 225 yd distance behind the firing line that two hexes represents can require two turns to traverse at times.

However, I assume that is a problem commanders found to be true on the ground during the battles, so its just a part of the realistic experience.

Any other thoughts on this subject?

Thank you Gentlemen!

Col. Martin {salute}

[elpaco]

Col.Martin, <salute>

If I may:
I personnaly seldom put my guns in first line. I either try to use elevation and put my guns one hex behind my infantry with infantry lower or either make a discontinued line with the artillery one hex behind and some open fields of fire or even behind a continued line and then I move the infantry to allow my guns to fire during offensive fire.
every situation is different so I can't give a single advice but these are 3 examples of positionning both artillery and infantry.

as for the supporting distance, it indeed depends on the terrain. With clear hexes, you can put a supporting brigade 6 hexes behind your first line and still be able to intervene in 1 turn. But the question is also what do you want to do with a supporting second line and also are you ready to give up ground which will influence the position of your supporting units ?

as I already said, it is difficult to answer to these questions generally. You can perhaps put a picture of a particuliar situation where you are wondering what other officers would do ?

Best regards
Francois

[David Martin]

Brig. Gen. Chatain: {salute}

Did you know you are listed as a Colonel in the DOR?

Anyway, thank you sir for your comments and advice. I have *learned* to better protect artillery the hard way!

I am thinking of several situations I suppose. First placement of units in support of an attack, second placement of units for support of an advance, and third placement of units as a general reserve i.e. "Wright's Brigade stood on Smith's Left and Jackson's Brigade on the right. Strahl and Maney were held in reserve".

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,

Col. Martin {salute}

[elpaco]

Yes I know but I don't know what to do about it !

my overall advice is first to try to get all your men involved.
it looks basic but we, playing the Union, generally have numerical superiority but if you accept to lose it because you keep 10,000 men in general reserve that won't fight at all or only 3 turns, it is a pity because you lose our main advantage.

I will quote approximately Napoleon : "tactics is 10 vs 1 and from the rear. the rest is small talk" and another one to a general showing him a plan for a cordon defense : "you want to stop contreband ?".
what is meant is that you can't attack everywhere nor defend everywhere.
choose the place where you want to be strong and the one where you don't care. and by "don't care", I really mean it...

If you play a long game and need a general reserve, units that will become unfixed, reinforcements or a few brigades engaged at the beginning and needing a bit of rest will probably do the trick. you probably better use your 'general reserve' as a weapon rather than have it ready for an occasion which might not occur.

I can't think of a game where I had a general reserve for a late use, especially when I was the attacker, except maybe in Peninsula but I generally am both attacker/defender in these games and the number of available brigades is so big you can easily spare some...

now, everybody has his own style of play. I personnaly try to be fast and aggressive but it is possible to be succesful with a more cautious approach I imagine.
But from my own experience, if you try to replicate what you have read about the historical battle, you will unfortunately probably be in trouble. don't forget this is a game with its drawbacks and shortcuts. Mixing your brigades or not having a general reserve are a part of it ...

this was my late evening thought for tonight
a little messy. sorry about that. I hope you can extract something from it that will help you.
if you want to send me a game so that I have a look and tell you what I think about global positionning, please feel free to do it, you will find my email address in the Dor or the AotC website...

regards
Francois

[ernie sands]

Yes I know but I don't know what to do about it !

Please report this to your Army Commander.

[nelmsm]

It's good to keep some reserve on hand as with the Union's lower quality rating ( ) they tend to rout more and need someone to fill the gaps. One trick to use is to keep your reserve units stacked up with as many men as possible and this will keep routing units from passing through. They can't rout through if it will overstack them. Also, if you are careful about where your enemy is and have a good field of fire you can leave the infantry behind the guns as long as the Confederates are outside movement range of your guns. You'll be hard pressed to find many locations in the ACW due to the nature of the terrain but do look for them. In the Napoleonic period you can find many more cases where this can be done.